Lostcast 180: 2D or not 2D


  • LDG



  • At the the end there, I thought it was going real sadcast. You had me thinking the reviews were really bad on Steam. I went and looked and it’s 37 positive to 0 negative. That’s awesome! Sounds like most of the feedback is exactly where you want to be “this will be much better with more content” type stuff.


  • Jammer

    “We’re not responsible enough to have a soundboard.” Haha. Yeah, i think that’s probably accurate XD.

    For drawing geometry, and for drawing sprites, you can use one shader. Create a blank white texture, and use a colour uniform to modify the colour of the shape geometry. Just change your vertex data as you need to. You can’t draw both in one batch call obviously, as you need to swap textures. I did this for the webgl workshop I’m running next week.

    Definitely want to use drawElements along with ELEMENT_ARRAY_BUFFER to reduce duplication of vertices that you pass down as your vertex attribute. The element array buffer says “use this vertex, use this one again, etc.”. Just overall pass less data down to the shader.

    In my own experience, the order of which you multiply matrices, is so important. Also which one you multiply by the other. You multiple perspective by your model matrix, not the other way around. Similarily you must do transforms in order of Translate, Rotate, Scale.

    Correction to Geoff: Clip space is -1 to 1. 0,0 is the middle. YOU’RE WRONG GEOFF, BUAHAHAHHAHA. Nah it’s cool, awesome to hear you learning this stuff. Basically all your coordinates must translate to -1 to 1 range. This applies to x, y, z. Anything outside of that will disappear. So this is how near/far works with a perspective camera. Anything outside of the far goes beyond -1. Note that near must be higher than 0 in your perspective math.

    Thinking in radians. This is a good idea, i should start doing it more. Thumbs up!

    Yeah the pixel data is rough. I added some UI stuff to my game the other day. Noticed some lag going on, it’s because im using a separate canvas draw of text to compute its dimensions. So i re-wrote it last night to do that when the game loads. Contains the text dimensions in cache. Just does the draw call during the game time only now.

    “Look at games made in CSS, oh god this is a mess”. Haha, yeah i see some crazy things done with CSS. Cool experiment, not a practical execution. Issue with writing so much in shaders, they are a huge pain to debug.


  • Jammer

    Running some maths in the js console, do you just have these numbers memorized Geoff? Or do you calculate them out and just put the result in your variables as you need to?

    360 * Math.PI / 180 == 6.283185307179586
    10 * Math.PI / 180 == 0.17453292519943295


  • Tiger Hat

    @jere said in Lostcast 180: 2D or not 2D:

    At the the end there, I thought it was going real sadcast. You had me thinking the reviews were really bad on Steam. I went and looked and it’s 37 positive to 0 negative. That’s awesome! Sounds like most of the feedback is exactly where you want to be “this will be much better with more content” type stuff.

    Yeah - I think you could do an amazing psychology paper on the Lost Decade podcast just by analysing the voice patterns.

    Personally, I think AWL2 is running up against what, to me, is the biggest problem facing indie devs, which is marketing - it’s a fun game; anyone I put in front of it really enjoys it (and most of them are better than me), but getting people to sit in front of games is hard.

    It’s neatly segmented content - perhaps once out of EA, there could be a Demo of the library only.


  • Patron

    VIDCAST!

    Why don’t you do some VIDCASTS??!

    Why did you delete those old VIDCASTS??!


  • Patron

    Well, I guess it’s has been a little while since you guys came out of school…
    Or maybe things are different there… Or maybe you just don’t remember xD

    But…

    We’ve just studied the unit circle in school and in the last exam we did we had to convert from degrees to radians and vice versa, calculate the size in radians of the arc between two arbitrary points in a circle, calculate the sine, cosine and tangent of congruent points in the unit circle and all that jazz. If only my classmates understood how useful this sort of thing can be…

    I can definitely say messing around with the Canvas API helped me on that one. I still can’t think in radians, tho, but that’s the point: between making a couple o’ functions to convert between the two and learning to think in radians, which one is the easiest and most practical?


  • LDG

    Yeah, the 37 positive reviews are AMAZING and easily the single most positive signal the game has. The thing is, they are mostly from you guys! Lostcast listeners! <3 You are the ones who know the STRUGGLE! Lotsa love.

    Ooh yeah converting between the two is a good skill to have at your fingertips. They did such a bad job in school of making students care. I didn’t care, but if I knew how useful it would be later for making digital fireballs and such, I’d have paid attention that’s for sure.



  • Your game does not only have good reviews from the listeners, youtubers enjoyed it as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmO4XpIgQD4 (just one case).

    First of all i think you overestimated the early access visibility (I am not sure how Steam works, but I am pretty sure you do not get as many impressions when you doing early access and even if you get similar impressions, the conversion rate in early access has to be lower). In addition you kind of screwed up the release time (Enter the Gungeon), but the good thing is you still have your proper release. I do not think anyone can tell you how successful your game will be, but you have quite some stuff going for you.
    First of all you are in a hot Genre, it might not be a the top of the world, but it is still strong.
    You have already a game released, which got quite some good reviews, so you will be able to convert some of those players, if they see it in full release.
    You have a very good pitch (play as the monster), which should help you as well.
    You have some quite loyal listeners, that will help you spread the word ;)
    So things are not looking so grim for you guys.

    Look at me in contrast:
    My game Will Glow the Wisp is not in a hot genre (I don’t even know which genre to put it in)
    The game does not have a good pitch
    I do not have any games released or following that would be worth mentioning
    That is already 4:0 for you guys and that’s just the stuff i could think from the top of my head.

    Believe me I understand sometimes gamedev can be really depressing, but I think you guys are on a pretty good path and I think you know that in your heart. I know that having to do contract work and the kickstarter, might feel like failing. But in the end, you do what you love for most of your time, that is more then most people can say. I wish you the best of luck with Soulthief and once you released, I will buy it as well (Yay one guaranteed customer ;) ), I am just not interested in play testing games other then my own ;)


  • Tiger Hat

    @richtaur said in Lostcast 180: 2D or not 2D:

    They did such a bad job in school of making students care. I didn’t care, but if I knew how useful it would be later for making digital fireballs and such, I’d have paid attention that’s for sure.

    Not to mention teaching us the wrong thing - I’m 38, and I’ve only just learned that the way they teach you to round numbers at school is actually considered bad practice - and I’ve likely written bad code because of it.


  • LDG

    @PartTimeIndie said in Lostcast 180: 2D or not 2D:

    Your game does not only have good reviews from the listeners, youtubers enjoyed it as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmO4XpIgQD4 (just one case).

    Yeah that was amazing to see! We were super relieved to see Jim enjoyed it.

    First of all i think you overestimated the early access visibility (I am not sure how Steam works, but I am pretty sure you do not get as many impressions when you doing early access and even if you get similar impressions, the conversion rate in early access has to be lower). In addition you kind of screwed up the release time (Enter the Gungeon), but the good thing is you still have your proper release. I do not think anyone can tell you how successful your game will be, but you have quite some stuff going for you.

    True yeah we overestimated EA launch, and no you don’t get as much visibility, until the real launch. haha I don’t know that we screwed up the release date so much as we got screwed by the release date – I’m not sure there’s any way we could have known Gungeon was going to release at that time. Maybe we need to get a better feel for the timing of things. But either way Gungeon took the spotlight that’s for sure.

    You have already a game released, which got quite some good reviews, so you will be able to convert some of those players, if they see it in full release.
    You have a very good pitch (play as the monster), which should help you as well.
    You have some quite loyal listeners, that will help you spread the word ;)
    So things are not looking so grim for you guys.

    These are great points, thanks for the encouragement.

    Look at me in contrast:
    My game Will Glow the Wisp is not in a hot genre (I don’t even know which genre to put it in)
    The game does not have a good pitch
    I do not have any games released or following that would be worth mentioning
    That is already 4:0 for you guys and that’s just the stuff i could think from the top of my head.

    Sorry to hear things aren’t going super great. I remember being in a similar spot and feeling pretty awful about it. We’re in very similar boats, it seems. Though there might be more positive signals on one project than another, I guess maybe that feeling of being unhappy with the current progress just doesn’t go away! Here’s to braving troubled waters :)

    Believe me I understand sometimes gamedev can be really depressing, but I think you guys are on a pretty good path and I think you know that in your heart. I know that having to do contract work and the kickstarter, might feel like failing.

    Those do feel like hard failures recently. But yeah failures are inevitable when trying to do difficult things. Thanks.

    But in the end, you do what you love for most of your time, that is more then most people can say.

    Sometimes I feel guilty about being unhappy ever ;) True yeah it’s awesome and I’m grateful I have gotten to do this for so long. Sometimes it just feels like the bubble is bursting, and that’s a rough feeling.

    I wish you the best of luck with Soulthief and once you released, I will buy it as well (Yay one guaranteed customer ;) ), I am just not interested in play testing games other then my own ;)

    Hey thanks, and good luck to you, too! I hope you get more eyeballs on your game. LMK if you need any retweets or anything :)


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