Flash lives!



  • Hello!

    There was a discussion on the most recent LostCast about the future of Flash.
    OpenFL is an open-source cross platform version of Flash that compiles-to-everything (including HTML5)

    http://www.openfl.org

    It uses Haxe, which is an AS3/Java/C# style language.

    http://haxe.org

    I spent years and years working in Flash, so it’s nice to see that is has a new life in a better form.
    Here’s a recent Gamasutra article about OpenFL and Haxe:

    http://goo.gl/xDxGof

    Flash had/has a great workflow, and the API is extremely well designed for general purpose interactive work.
    In fact, its API has taken on a life of its own and has re-emerged in other technologies like Starling/Sparrow, CreateJS, and Pixi.

    What was bad about Flash was that because there was no real competition Adobe never put the resources it needed to into improving the player, Performance was terrible, and they never listened to the community about solving some long standing problems.
    I once submitted a bug report that took two years for an Adobe engineer to review.
    So when real competition arrived (HTML5, Unity, iOS, XNA) we all jumped ship.

    But, the workflow was great.
    I don’t think I’ll go back to it as I don’t like coding in those hulking Java style monster languages anymore.
    But I’m really happy for the millions of Flash developers out there who can continue to have a productive outlet for their skills.
    Yay, Flash!


  • Tiger Hat

    Papers, Please was made in Haxe. It received a glittering 4 Tiger-hats out of 10 in the popular “games Geoff hasn’t really played but has an opinion on” section in Lostcast.

    EDIT: Just went to openfl.org, is that rymdkapsel on the front page??

    2ND EDIT: Yeah it was according to the showcase, I saw Cardinal Quest II in there too, the sequel to the Ido Yehelli (can’t remember how to spell his name) game. (He’s a Roguelike Radio regular).

    @d13 does this mean that Papers, Please was actually made in OpenFL?




  • Penguin

    @Affordable_Desk said:

    received a glittering 4 Tiger-hats out of 10 in the popular “games Geoff hasn’t really played but has an opinion on” section in Lostcast.

    What are the games?

    Yes, I do not listen to Lostcast.


  • Patron

    Yeah, Flash tools and community were and still are very great.

    For game development specifically, I can name of the top of my mind Flixel and Flashpunk, both great frameworks with great communities.

    When I say I don’t like Flash, I’m actually saying I don’t like the Flash plugin and that I don’t like Actionscript.

    I just love dynamic typing and prototypal inheritance, and I hate anything that tries to change the way these things work on Javascript. Typescript? Coffeescript?? Ecma 6??? Argh! No, thanks!

    I also can’t understand why Haxe and OpenFL compile to Javascript. If they compiled into something like ASM.js, it would make a lot of sense, but if you’re targeting Javascript, why don’t you code it in Javascript? It isn’t that different from Actionscript, actually.

    I would love to see more Flash developers making the move from Flash to Javascript, instead of going to these solutions.

    It would be so great if we could unify all web scripting languages! Maybe Ecma 6 will do that, who knows… Dart anyone???



  • @Josue Luckily we now live in a world where can choose our technologies, languages and development styles to suit our personal tastes.
    The more the merrier :)
    Just few short years ago it was pretty much just Flash or C++ … argh!

    If you haven’t already seen it, Gary Bernhardt’s “The Birth and Death of JavaScript” is a lot of fun:

    http://goo.gl/TZuPUe


  • Tiger Hat

    @d13 said:

    @Josue Luckily we now live in a world where can choose our technologies, languages and development styles to suit our personal tastes.
    The more the merrier :)
    Just few short years ago it was pretty much just Flash or C++ … argh!

    If you haven’t already seen it, Gary Bernhardt’s “The Birth and Death of JavaScript” is a lot of fun:

    http://goo.gl/TZuPUe

    You know what’s even weirder @Josue is that it ebbed and it flowed, prior to the barren wastelands of C++ and Java we had something similar to the variety we have today. Functional principles were beginning to take off from the mid 80s to the early 90s, people entertained the idea of running Lisp machines everywhere, Pascal and C were once direct competitors, Lisp gave us Scheme and Actor, Scheme gave us PLT Scheme and Maple etc. etc. and all that fun and variety got in the way of getting the right software done. The C++ thing had to happen, it was to programming languages as First Person Shooters were to other games and it shone a light on to the importance of what it was we did, no one thought of a particular language as “fun” but most programmers (who were in employment) did enjoy programming a lot, they just thought that C++ was the only way to “do programming”.

    Then there would be articles like “Crash Bandicoot was written in Lisp” and there would be a buzz about it, then we found that there were things that C++ can’t do but it’s so powerful and extensible let’s just create a Standard Template Library, or let’s just create a Generics extension. Then people started asking, wouldn’t it be great if there was a language, let’s call it language X that could by design do things that we’re having to write extensions to C++ for?

    Sometimes I look up to a revered elder in my life such as a grandparent or someone I’ve worked for and marvel at the things they experienced that I’ll never get to see. At the time we really thought that we’d never write a piece of code that wasn’t C++ ever again, at least if we wanted to get anything done. The point that @d13 has been able to make in their post above is that JavaScript is not the thrilling experience you feel it is because it’s the best, it’s because it’s not the best.

    I hope it stays that way as you continue to code because if it doesn’t, you won’t have any stories to tell.


  • Patron

    @Affordable_Desk said:

    The point that @d13 has been able to make in their post above is that JavaScript is not the thrilling experience you feel it is because it’s the best, it’s because it’s not the best.

    I hope it stays that way as you continue to code because if it doesn’t, you won’t have any stories to tell.

    Ok… I don’t get it…

    In fact, I didn’t get the point of your post at all, sorry XD

    I mean, minha lingua materna é português!

    And while that talk was really informative, funny and creative (I lol’d hard at 13:20), all the “flaws” Gary pointed out (except for that thing with hashes I didn’t understand. What the heck are hashes?) are implementation flaws, not flaws of the language itself.

    Yeah, I totally agree that Javascript on the web is not the best, actually, I think it’s pretty bad. But I love the language itself, you know?

    Also, I can’t understand why representing all numbers as floats is a bad idea. Of course, with 32-bit floats, there will be a LOT of problems, but if all numbers are represented as 64-bit floats, you can represent exactly all integers up to +/-2⁵² and represent all floats up to +/-2⁴² with a +/-0.0005 precision, which are both way more than what you’ll probably need.


  • Tiger Hat

    @Affordable_Desk said:

    You know what’s even weirder @Josue is that it ebbed and it flowed, prior to the barren wastelands of C++ and Java we had something similar to the variety we have today. Functional principles were beginning to take off from the mid 80s to the early 90s, people entertained the idea of running Lisp machines everywhere, Pascal and C were once direct competitors, Lisp gave us Scheme and Actor, Scheme gave us PLT Scheme and Maple etc. etc. and all that fun and variety got in the way of getting the right software done. The C++ thing had to happen, it was to programming languages as First Person Shooters were to other games and it shone a light on to the importance of what it was we did, no one thought of a particular language as “fun” but most programmers (who were in employment) did enjoy programming a lot, they just thought that C++ was the only way to “do programming”.

    Lol I once wrote a version of Frogger in Pascal. It was pretty fun! Good times.


  • Tiger Hat

    @Macaronee said:

    @Affordable_Desk said:

    received a glittering 4 Tiger-hats out of 10 in the popular “games Geoff hasn’t really played but has an opinion on” section in Lostcast.

    What are the games?

    Yes, I do not listen to Lostcast.

    In depth “Papers, Please” review by Geoffrey Blair and Matthew Hackett

    EDIT: Looks like Onedrive isn’t the best at Audio sharing, will just take you to the file by the looks of it to be downloaded and played on an external media player I guess.


  • Tiger Hat

    @Affordable_Desk humorous :) good job


  • Penguin

    @geoffb /facepalm


  • Tiger Hat

    To be fair, I thought it was a pretty boring game too. Okay, I know he didn’t actually play it, but still!


  • LDG

    Man, sometimes I want to punch myself when I listen to Lostcast. I’m starting to think that having a weekly record of the dumb things I say is a bad idea :P



  • I should probably raise that I played it by the way, I’ve had it for a few months now racked up a few hours and it’s pretty good. Haven’t played it for a while though, the one critical issue is that if you check a passport for all issues you will never meet the daily quota, never. It’s likely that the designer is trying to make a point here but if he isn’t then it would be bad design. Other than that deserving of it’s praise.


  • LDG

    I have done my best to play Papers, Please. It just won’t run on my Mac, and (for some reason) doesn’t exist in my Humble library for Windows. I will persevere someday!



  • Flash lives?
    Maybe not!
    HTML5 outperforms it by an extraordinary amount:

    http://reddogvg.github.io


  • Patron

    @d13 said:

    Flash lives?
    Maybe not!
    HTML5 outperforms it by an extraordinary amount:

    http://reddogvg.github.io

    Yeah, but performance is veeery browser-dependent, so, HTML5 in IE is probably slower than flash.

    Adobe should really do something like the Flash ide but for HTML5.


Log in to reply